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Author Topic: Rocket Motors (LOX/LH2)  (Read 3610 times)
yale
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« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2005, 11:58:37 AM »

That s what I googled. J-2 pogo problems.

yale
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2005, 11:34:52 AM »

The RS-68 engine is the first new large liquid-fueled rocket engine to be developed in the United States in 25 years. Designed for the Boeing Delta IV family of evolved expendable launch vehicles (EELV), the bell-nozzle RS-68 is a liquid hydrogen - liquid oxygen booster engine utilizing a simplified design philosophy resulting in a drastic reduction in parts compared to current cryogenic engines. This design approach results in lower development and production costs.

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/propul/RS68.html

See also

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/delta/delta4/journey/rs68engine.htm
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2006, 05:25:33 PM »

Well, we are still using them!

ESA's page on the Vulcain/Vulcain-2.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Launchers_Access_to_Space/ASELVQI4HNC_0.html

Top photo - Test firings of the Ariane-5 cryogenic Vulcain engine in Vernon (France) and Lampoldshausen (Germany).

Credits: SNECMA/SEP/DLR/DASA

Bottom photo - DLR ( auf Deutsch - http://www.dlr.de/ )
( in English - http://www.dlr.de/en/desktopdefault.aspx )
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2006, 12:19:55 PM »

RELEASE: 06-226 - http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2006/may/HQ_06226_RS-68_ENGINE.html

Quote
NASA has chosen the RS-68 engine to power the core stage of the agency's heavy lift cargo launch vehicle intended to carry large payloads to the moon.

The announcement supersedes NASA's initial decision to use a derivative of the space shuttle main engine as the core stage engine for the heavy lift launch vehicle.

The cargo launch vehicle will serve as NASA's primary vessel for safe, reliable delivery of resources to space. It will carry large-scale hardware and materials for establishing a permanent moon base, as well as food, fresh water and other staples needed to extend a human presence beyond Earth orbit.

Recent studies examining life-cycle cost showed the RS-68 is best suited for NASA's heavy-lift cargo requirements. The decision to change the core stage engine required an increase in the size of the core propulsion stage tank, from a 27.5-foot diameter tank to 33-foot diameter tank, to provide additional propellant required by the five RS-68 engines.

The RS-68 is the most powerful liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen booster in existence, capable of producing 650,000 pounds of thrust at sea level. In contrast, the space shuttle main engine is capable of producing 420,000 pounds of thrust at sea level. The RS-68, upgraded to meet NASA's requirements, will cost roughly $20 million per engine, a dramatic cost savings over the shuttle main engine.

The prime contractor for the RS-68 engine is Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, Calif. Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne is the same company that manufactures the shuttle main engine.

The RS-68 is used in the Delta IV launcher, the largest of the Delta rocket family developed in the 1990s by the U.S. Air Force for its evolved expendable launch vehicle program and commercial launch applications.

The cargo launch vehicle effort includes multiple project element teams at NASA centers and contract organizations around the nation and is led by the Exploration Launch Office at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/main/index.html
Skyjim
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2006, 01:52:58 AM »

I got a personal kick out of the RS-68 decision for the Cargo vehicle, or , apparently, the Ares V.  I wish they would quit trying to borrow Apollo nomenclature - it seems a bit self-conscious.  Crew launch Vehicle is Ares I, cargo Ares V, and the official release on the names called it a tribute, I think, to the Saturn IB and Saturn V.

I personally think Von Braun would be spinning in his grave if he knew that somebody was comparing that SRB pencil to his Saturn IB.  Even though the Saturn I family was an expedient that was built around clustered Jupiter and Redstone tankage as a quick and dirty way to gain heavy lift capability, I always found the unusual first stage contours rather elegant...

Anyway, back to the RS-68 decision.   I am fairly familiar with both the RS-68 and the SSME from manufacturing experience on both and long personal interest led me to become fairly familiar with operational characteristics. 

When they first announced the intention to power the upper stage of the crew vehicle with SSME, I recall wondering about implementing an air-lit SSME variant, given the rather extensive prestart conditioning requirements of the current engine - there's a great deal of ground equipment whose functions would have to be served by a flight-mass system, a real challenge if you want to preserve your Isp advantage for payload rather than trading it for subsystem mass.  Well, folks, it turns out that J-2X is looking like a better idea now, but it took a very long time to get to that decision - TOO long IMHO.

I was also frankly  incredulous about the idea of trying to make an lower-cost expendable SSME variant for the cargo vehicle, and I think I posted a speculation that they HAD to be talking about a recoverable engine module - there is just no way to build a truly cheap SSME variant.  I believe I opined at the time that RS-68 would make more sense for the cargo vehicle from a life-cycle cost AND operational flexibility standpoint. 

Now, I'm fairly bright, but certainly no engineering genius - yet my antennae were twitching on these issues over a year ago if memory serves.  It disturbs me that NASA took so long to reach these conclusions.

I fear that the vast inertia of the shuttle program once more reared its head in this process.  SSMEs are expensive, complex, very high performance machines, and they require all sorts of TLC to turn around between flights.  This employs a large number of people at KSC, Marshall, and Stennis (though not many at Rocketdyne these days - no more overhauls being done there...), and this interests the congressional representatives of these places.  An entire generaton of NASA program people have made their whole careers on shuttle, ET, SRB, and SSME.    They have not had to actually develop new major booster systems designs, just refine the one system they operate.  That's a mite unsettling to me if I think about it too long!  The idea that "shuttle-derived" equated to lower cost vehicles was sheer fantasy when one looked at STS program costs - yet the NASA folks clung to this straw as long as possible.  They wouldn't jump to RS-68 because the lower Isp meant either larger tanks or less payload than required for the CaLV baseline lunar missions.   Larger diameter tanks meant shuttle ET tooling couldn't be adapted at Michoud, and this was resisted until the absurd cost of tossing 5 SSMEs a launch forced them to reconsider - and perhaps recall that Michoud produced 10 meter diameter S-IC tankage 40 years ago and is quite roomy enough to do so again!

Anyway, I hope they move out now that the last vestige of drop-in shuttle hardware is off the table.  Even the 5 segment SRB is a new piece, though it is derivative.  They tried to hang on to the 4 segment RSRM for the crew vehicle, but they couldn't make that happen without a lightweight, air-lit SSME for the second stage. I'm hoping for good things, but I'm a concerned observer - we've already wasted more than a year squirming around with shuttle-legacy hardware designs.

Jim 
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