Topic: LATEX is now available

[Orstio]

Sorry, those are all executable files.  They aren't going to work on the web.

[Astronuc]

Aha, a minor hurdle.  So, now the challenge is to develop a computational engine that performs calculations in SMF/ php? ;D

The motion of a non-turbulent, Newtonian fluid is governed by the Navier-Stokes equation:

[tex] \large{-\vec{\nabla} p + \mu \vec{{\nabla}}^2v + \frac{1}{3}\mu\vec{\nabla} (\vec{\nabla}\cdot \vec{v})+ \rho \vec{b} = \rho \dot{\vec{v}}}[/tex]  compressible fluid

[tex] \large{-\vec{\nabla} p + \mu \vec{{\nabla}}^2v + \rho \vec{b} = \rho \dot{\vec{v}}} [/tex]  incompressible fluid

where [tex]\large{\vec{b}}[/tex] = body force

and [tex] \large{\dot{\vec{v}} = \frac{\partial{\vec{v}}}{\partial{t}} + \vec{v} \cdot{\nabla}\vec{v} }[/tex] (this derivative is also known as the material derivative).

and [tex] \large{\vec{v} \cdot{\nabla}\vec{v}} [/tex] is the convection term.

( source http://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/navier_stokes.cfm )

also, check out the classic text: R. Byron Bird, Warren E. Stewart, & Edwin N. Lightfoot, Transport Phenomena, John Wiley & Sons, July 2001

I should point out that the Navier-Stokes (momentum) equation is a vector equation.  The mass and energy continity equations are scalar equations.

[Orstio]

Now your just showing off.   :P

Aha, a minor hurdle.  So, now the challenge is to develop a computational engine that performs calculations in SMF/ php?

If somebody can write one in PHP, I can integrate it into SMF.

However, I believe in a few years W3C's MathML will replace all web-based math utilities, including LATEX.  Mark-up tags are much easier to understand than LATEX syntax.

[Astronuc]

Now your just showing off. 

You started it - you got me fired up and I now I just have to let off some inviscid Newtonian fluid (steam). :D

If somebody can write one in PHP, I can integrate it into SMF.

However, I believe in a few years W3C's MathML will replace all web-based math utilities, including LATEX.  Mark-up tags are much easier to understand than LATEX syntax.

I think we will have to wait.  In the meantime, buy stock in W3C!  If they do this, then I am sure Mathsoft, Wolfram or similar company will try to take them over, or they will be forced to takeover one of the others.

[Rxke]

Anyone an idea how hard it is to lean LATEX?
I will probably have to use it next year, but keep putting it off...

Isn't it easier to look up 'codes' for the stuff you want in the manual and cobble stuff together that way, or does it pay off significanly to have the basics/intermediate part under the belt?

[remcook]

It's very easy. I have started using it for my thesis in December. Within a week, you can do all the basic stuff. And if you need new things, you can easily look them up. For more sophisticated stuff, like changing the lay-out, there are probably some good sites available, but I didn't need them, because there was a style sheet available.

[Astronuc]

Orstio posted a link to a website that contains the manual for 'mimeTex'.  It's under the forum - Comments and Suggestions.

Broomstar posted some links to sites about Tex on page 2 of this thread.

It would be easy to simply copy codes and cobble stuff together, I copy some examples and played with them a bit just to get the hang of it.  I posted here and kept modifying until I got it to look the way I wanted.

The stuff above on Navier-Stokes, I did from scratch while using a manual for the codes.  The manuals that Orstio and broomstar posted links to are quite good.

Besides 'tex' which is kind of like the [ b ] or [ i ] for bold or italic in html, the syntax is pretty straight forward.  The \ is used used for functional as in \frac generates a fraction of the arguments which follow.  The arguments are enclosed in { }.  The fraction command requires two arguments, e.g.

\frac{x}{y} in tex is [tex] \frac{x}{y} [/tex]

\nabla{x}  is  [tex] \nabla{x} [/tex] or you can use vector notation,

\vec\nabla{x}  is  [tex] \vec\nabla{x} [/tex]

\rho, \mu, \nu are  [tex] \rho, \mu, \nu [/tex]  - if you see a question mark (?), it means the interpreter has recognized an extra space after \nu in the example.  On the homepage view, the question mark did not appear.

and \partial{Q}  is [tex] \partial{Q}[/tex]

the longer formulas can be tricky - spaces do matter, and an odd \ or { does weird things.  While composing the Navier-Stokes equations, I used a text editor (Textpad) to store the text while did each term in the equation.  Textpad has many good features like showing spaces and returns, which are also important.  As far as I know, the formulas cannot contain returns, but must be continuous (wrapped) text.

I am certainly a novice, but if an old dinosaur like me can learn it, I have a rational expectation (can't make myself say faith) that you will master it. :2thumbsup.gif: Try some posting some stuff here, and if you get stuck (like I did) just ask.  :)

Besides - you have the brain trust of Orstio, broomstar and remcook.  That's a formidable team.  :)  That's one of the cool things about E-S.  It's a great place to learn new, interesting and useful stuff, and of course have fun at the same time. Gee, doesn't that sounds like university, or at least the way university is supposed to work.  ;D  That's also what the internet was supposed to be rather than the @#$% that's out there (I feel a rant coming on so I'm closing).

[remcook]

hmm ..with Latex it's

\vec{\nabla}

and

\partial Q

funny

[Astronuc]

OK, I am wrong (although my way did work),
Rem is right and his formulas are simpler, cleaner and more efficient (always the goal of effective programming).  Microsoft never learned this apparently.

[tex] \vec{\nabla} [/tex]  using Rem's formula from just above

[tex] \partial Q [/tex] using Rem's formula from just above

So " \ " defines a 'command' or functional or operator, and the command operates on whatever follows?  What then is the significance of {  }?  They obviously contain an argument or arguments.  In LATEX, I saw \rgroup and \lgroup, but those did not work in mimeTex.

Well, NUTS, I am still learning - falling off the proverbial bicycle or horse, but getting back up and trying again.

Thanks, Rem. :)

Another point, there appear to be variations on TeX (mimeTex, LATEX and LATEX2) just like there are variations on unix.  So while most commands work across different versions, some special ones don't.  So, just try and see what happens.

[Astronuc]

Questions for Orstio, remcook, and/or broomstar -
do you have a TeX or LaTeX program running on your PC's,
what version,
where do install it (program files),
how much storage does it require,
and is it a stand alone application or is it used through a browswer (IE or Netscape) or other application.

[remcook]

I have the combination MikTex with winEdt.

You can select the directory, but it probably puts some stuff in the windows directory as well.

Miktex is about 150 MB

Winedt 12 MB

Winedt uses Miktex to run. That's all.

[Astronuc]

Thanks Rem.

Another test - \vec\nabla\cdot\vec\nabla Q yields

[tex] \vec\nabla\cdot\vec\nabla Q [/tex]

[Rxke]

Thanks.
Been following this thread, and figured out it might be quite straightforward, even for someone than never bothered to learn HTML.
(Have some very basic knowledge about it, though, and very very rusty C skills. And some old memories about COBOL, Pascal and BASIC....)

[remcook]

the great thing about Latex (besides the mathematical formulae) is that everything is automatic: cross referencing, layout, etc. So you don't have to worry abou that kind of thing. By loading a different style sheet, your layout can be completely different, without the hussle of changing every single page. Also, if you insert chapters or section or whatever, the reference to that chapter changes automatically, because you give it a name and you refer to that name. Same with formula number, figure numbers, table numbers, etc.

Disadventage is that you don't "see what you get". You first have to get it through a compiler. But that only takes a minute or so if you haven't made any mistakes. Another disadvantage: you can make mistakes (syntax errors). But that is easy to correct once you had the compiler point you to the errors.

[Rxke]

At last getting my hand dirty on LATEX/TEX whatever...

*Very* impressed, though the adage that actually installing these packages is more difficult than using the thing, seems true... Still get a lot of libs missing during compilation etc...

(Running  iTEXMAC under OSX on a real slow G3, but it's a better wordprocessor than anything i've seen before, even includes Dutch auto spell-check, woohoo!
Boy this thing is *powerful*, *intelligent* (the referencing, footnotes, stylechanges etc... What a flexibility...)

Only scraping the surface, yet, just reading and fiddling with examplefiles, but i love it. Goodbye crappy Word!

Best of all: it's 100% free, eat that Microsoft!