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Author Topic: nicotine : pros and cons  (Read 964 times)
gcks
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« on: February 24, 2005, 06:30:24 AM »

So , if you have already read about the sleep problems of a member of ours , you might have found a  "conflict" on this issue : nicotine .
Let's discuss about nicotine and the benefits or dangers that sb has when he or she consumes it.
skeptigirl
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2005, 01:04:45 AM »

Nicotine does not have enough benefits to out weigh it's risks and down sides. Why is it even being considered?
gcks
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2005, 04:44:17 AM »

That's true.
Why is it considered????Why not!
Why others discuss about (lets say..) tsunami?I thing this have killed more people than nicotine..(and instantly)
In science , there are no limits , I mean  we are not discussing only what is healthy.
We are discussing about a social problem that "knowing it thoroughly" could save us!
Nuclear power has pros (alternative energy) and cons (atomic bob), but we are discussing about this (and that is good).In the same way , nicotine is a medicine that helps people with depression

http://www.imbiomed.com/Innsz/Nnv54n1/Nn021-05i.pdf

If we know the pros and cons of nicotine , we could combat it in an effective way (because we will know our enemy ) .And if you don't smoke , other people do and they are lots of them...

And something else, addiction is an aspect of human life. Or do you think that you are not "addicted" even to this site (everything science) ...
skeptigirl
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2005, 09:23:54 AM »

Gcks, I looked at your sources and your arguments here about nicotine and I find absolutely nothing that applies to solving the problem of stressful physical activity in the late evening interfering with sleep.

The comment you made that you are looking at smoking and/or nicotine scientifically and not morally is totally irrelevant. No one here has said a single word about smoking being immoral and I doubt anyone here cares about such issues.

Your logic about the tsunami is not logical at all. I said nothing about nicotine kills therefore it isn't useful, I said the side effects by far out weigh any benefits.

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We are discussing about a social problem that "knowing it thoroughly" could save us!
Your sources certainly don't support any benefit except some memory improvement potential but no comparison is made about the trade off in heart damage nor is the research anything but a most preliminary study. What is nicotine supposed to save us from?

Language barrier or not, why would any physician cite an invitation for subjects for research as a resource for information on the medical benefits of a substance. And the research you cited on rat studies has absolutely nothing to do with sleep.

So what's the deal here? Do you have some personal issue with nicotine?  Or are you just posting this stuff for some personal enjoyment of 'off the wall' discussions?
payloadcontroller
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2005, 11:21:49 AM »

I will repeat the post I made in Sunspots4ever's thread, so that this can be put to rest once and for all.

-------

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Exercice (but not too much),yoga ,reading of a book would help(hobbies at large).
This is a type of minor depression


Gcks did not even bother to read sunspot's original complaint. Her problem is that she is TAKING MARTIAL ARTS IN THE EVENING -- a HIGH level of exercise -- and then has trouble winding down afterward.

This has nothing to do with depression whatsoever.

What is happening is that the intense exercise and mental alertness late in the day is resetting her circadian rythms. I know about circadian rythms in no little detail, because on Shuttle missions we did extensive studies, both on-orbit and with the ground controllers, on circadian rythms, and I also have the same trouble with my own martial arts class, which is scheduled from 8-9pm local.

As to the notion that nicotine is an effective treatment for depression, that makes about as much sense as saying that you should take Vioxx for your arthritis, and forget about the potential for heart attack and stroke. NO reputable, ethical medical practitioner would do so. To my knowledge, one cannot divorce "moral" [read: ethical] and "scientific" when practicing medicine. My uncle, an MD and chief of staff at his hospital, would never think of doing so.

In addition, several of the papers you reference, such as, "Relationship between mood improvement and sleep changes with acute nicotine administration in non-smoking major depressed patients," are studies principally intended to look at the acetylcholine mechanism and its role in chronic depression. The researchers simply chose nicotine as the means of affecting the cholinergic mechanism, due to its availability and convenience of administration in patch form.

I quote from the above-denoted paper:
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Transdermal nicotine challenge could be useful for to explore [sic] the cholinergic status in some depressed patients and first-degree relatives, and in these kind of studies to get some more knowledge about the role of the cholinergic system in depression and maybe in other neuropsychiatric disorders.
[emphasis mine]

And from one of the other articles you cited:
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“These findings don’t mean people should smoke,” warns neuroscientist Michael Kuhar, PhD, of Emory University. “Any benefits from the nicotine in cigarettes or other tobacco products are far outweighed by the proven harm of using those products. But pure nicotine-like compounds as medications do show promise for treating human disorders.”

Nicotine and "nicotine-LIKE" compounds are, when one views the reality, vastly different things.

As to the supposed correlation between stress and smoking, as nicotine is addictive, the tendency IS to produce an endorphin-type response upon use, hence the likelihood of tobacco users to increase usage during periods of stress, and to go into depression upon withdrawal. This is a selection effect, and cannot necessarily be correlated to an actual beneficial response to the nicotine.

The solicitation of subjects for a pain-tolerance study which will, AMONG OTHER FACTORS, look at how nicotine affects pain-tolerance, is no support of ANY argument.

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Orstio READ THE FOLLOWING:
“Many people have thought that cotinine was an essentially inactive metabolite, but we have shown that at appropriate doses, it enhances memory and protects brain cells from dying, as well as having antipsychotic properties,” said Jerry Buccafusco, who directed the research project at MCG.


May I point out that cotinine is a NICOTINE METABOLITE, and not nicotine in itself. It, as per the article you selectively quote, has none of the harmful side effects of nicotine, including additive tendencies.

Nicotine in and of itself is NOT an accepted, administered drug for ANY health disorder, physical OR mental. End of story.
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