Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar system

[payloadcontroller]

OK, that's precisely what I thought. Excellent. Looking good there, puppydog pal. Keep us posted.

[Remcook]

How great would it be if all the puzzle pieces were to fall in place! The early solar system explained! By Dingo!

[dingo15068]

Remcook, this is just a theory, a possibility based on scientific study and a lot of research.  It would be interesting if it accually did happen this way, unfortunately not possible to prove.
The model calculates the effects of gravity on objects.  Also included is the effects of tidal forces on objects, the effects of collisions of various sized objects.

The test run has the orbits of major planets as baseline, and objects of various sizes coming in at different angles and speeds are ran through the solar system.  It then calculates the effects, and runs them to current.  If the orbits match current orbits, the secondary program runs.  It checks the effects against the orbits of 2000 objects in the solar system, and brings them to present as well.  If both match, it then generates a report, and assigns a probiliblity.

The effects it has to verify is force of impact on Uranus, that would cause it to be tipped at it's current angle.

Secondary effects would be impacts with Pluto and Venus.

A SOL strike is the work of another astronomer, and the resulting flare is based on his model.

Now there are many Uranus strike possibilities, based on my Model.

Those are called 1 point strikes.

Those strikes that have 2 planets effected, are called 2 point strikes.  There are several hundred of them

Those that have more 3 or more planets are called 3 point strikes.  I have 7 of those.

Those that effect 4 or more Planets are called a 4 point strike.  I have 1 of them so far

[Remcook]

still...would be very nice.

May I ask how you came to this? What made you make the program?

[dingo15068]

Remcook, good question.  I was 16 when I got the astronomy bug.  I was a sophmore in high school, and they offered a course in astronomy and another in geology.  Same teacher, and problibly my favorate in high school.  Made both subjects fun.  Geology was first, so I got a basic understanding of geological processes, then astronomy.  On a trip up to Minnisota to watch a solar eclipse, the whole class round robined unusual features in the solar system (18 hour drive).  Uranus's tilt facinated me, so I wrote a short paper stating that I though the tilt was cased by a collision in the early years of the solar system.  He wrote back....Prove it.  Because I felt challanged, I started researching it, and was fustrated by the lack of information about the subject.  So ever since, I have been working on the problem, taken courses in both astronomy and geology, physics, and programming.  It has been a bit of an obsession for the last 23 years, as a hobby.
I got a bit lucky in 1990.  The place I was working at, phased out their mainframe computers, and my boss at the time, instead of attempting to sell them (no market) instead hooked them up together, and has used them ever since to run Physics computations in the pursuit of a few pet projects of his own.  (He has a doctorites in Physics).  He assisted me in writing the model, and in his spare time, when he is not using the equipment, runs the model in the background.  I access the data here at home via my PC, as the computers themselves are 1500 miles away.
Because of the way it is written, I can add objects to the model, to check against easily, by adding items to the database, and I periodicly check the objects, by accessing other astonomy databases, that monitor these objects, and I look for mistakes  (there have been several of those, as initial orbital data like on new NEO's and new comets are adjusted as more observation is done)
And because I have the checks that I do, errors in computations stand out.
Now there is a degree of error in the model.  There are several factors that I can not program for, because the information is not available, like how much mass a planet gains by intersteller dust, how much is stripped from planets by solar wind.  That might not sound like much of a factor, but over the great length of time, those factors add up in significant amounts, which will skew the model.  That is something that I have noticed in several models dealing with possible past events do not account for

[Remcook]

23 years! :eek :eek Sounds great to have a hobby like that and with that a goal! Do you go to symposia and congresses to talk with professional astronomers and exchange ideas?

[dingo15068]

I do so online and e-mail.  Problem with syposims and confresses...I do not have credituals.  Without them, they will regard you as a crackpot for the most part.  That and the mention of rogues entering the solar system, makes many members of the scientific community think you are associated with the search for Nemisis.  Rogues exist, there is no doubt about it.  Star formation and planetary formation almost guarentee's the ejection of material, as well as Stars going Nova.  The force from a Nova could give an outer planet of that system enough of a push to give it escape velosity.  Such planets would be cinders, Atmospheres burnt off, exspecially gas giants, leaving just their dense cores.  There is also fragments of stars that could be blown our ways.  Those would primarily be frozen gas objects, depending on speed, distance, and compositions
Now the mathamatical probibilities of a large object entering our solar system are very small, around the order of 1 every billion years. Striking one of our planets the odd's are even smaller. Most extraterestrial objects would be dust, sand sized particals (almost a daily occurance)up to small asteroids (less frequent).  Astronomers have docmented that during our sun's passage around the galaxy, it passes through at least 1 to 2 dust clouds.  This occurs every 26 million years.  If a planet sized object did enter and close flyby/strike, you would get a shotgun effect, which my model documents, and in part has been comfirmed by discoveries of possible Mars meteorites found in Antartica.  (Mars got struck, material was blasted away from the planet, some made it to Earth)

[Remcook]

Text version of the last couple of posts:

Rajasun:
Ok folks...after a LONG hiatus interrupted by an episode of colon cancer affecting my mom and involvement with discussions at another forum i.e. pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntforplanetxfrm37
I'm back...nice to see Dingo is still at it developing your Multiple Rogues...BUT I welcome ALL to take a look at various threads below. Remcock you SHOULD be interested in them i.e. did you NOT asked to be updated? *wink*

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=492.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=547.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=557.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=553.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=556.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=552.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=533.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...D=22.topic

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=561.topic

Comments are welcome!


 
"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
- Albert Einstein -

Edited by: rajasun   at: 11/2/03 8:18:28 am
 
Remcook
Hopeless ES Addict
Posts: 1610
(11/2/03 8:07:29 am)
Reply   Re: CRAP!
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Very interested rajasun! Glad to see you back.  
 
rajasun  
Citizen
Posts: 18
(11/2/03 8:23:11 am)
Reply  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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BTW Remcock and others, I can be contacted at:
explore@webmail.co.za
OR on ICQ at:
107013019

IF you have ANYTHING related to issues related to happenings, research on the OUTER Solar System, Brown Dwarfs (BDs) e.g. atmospheric profiling, spectral analysis, etc OR rogue objects. Endeavours such as the one on hand is BEST facilitated over the web i.e. cutting down physical barriers like geographic borders with the ADDED BONUS of SPEEDING up work should the RIGHT mix of people is found.

Looking forward to your involvement. Thanks.



 

"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
- Albert Einstein -

Edited by: rajasun   at: 11/2/03 8:28:47 am
 
rajasun  
Citizen
Posts: 19
(11/2/03 8:34:17 am)
Reply  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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Another thread to which some MAY find interesting:

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=445.topic
"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
- Albert Einstein -
 
dingo15068
WAN * Admiral and
Captain of Phoenix
Posts: 1417
(12/2/03 12:59:12 am)
Reply
  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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Rajasun,
I am very familur with the Hunt for Planet X forum. In fact last year I was honored by them to present my theory in an open chat session during their annual meeting.

As my theory deals with rogue intrusions, by extrasteller objects, there is a coorilation, True my work primarily deals with a large object, vs smaller objects, it is due to the nature of finding coolaberating evidence. Small objects are problibly most common, but their entry into the solar system would for the most part go unnoticed, unless it collided with something else, deflecting the orbit of a known object (Asteroids, objects in the Kuniper belt).

The degree of damage as shown by my model, and one of the results it has generated, is such a rare event that the odd's are astronomical for it to have happened, yet evidence does exist for it's occurance.

Now, I will be the first to admit, that the formula's I developed, deal with the effects of multiple gravitational objects on another object. Something that is very cutting edge even in the professional astronomy community, and one that is still not fully understood. Most of the professional astronomers dealing with Planet X, if you pin them on it, will admit their formula's are also cutting edge, hense to contraversy
 
Remcook
Hopeless ES Addict
Posts: 1618
(12/2/03 3:55:13 pm)
Reply  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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Phew, just worked my way through the first link. Some questions:

About the 1983 article about the '10th planet' discovered by IRAS. What happened since? I didn't know the story (before my time  ) so it hasn't become accepted. Not that I'm an expert or something. Not at all. I mean it isn't general knowledge.

About the Pioneer anomaly: if the acceleration came from an external object, then the sun itself must also have an 'abnormal' accelleration, as well as the planets (like the wobble method to detect exoplanets, the sun must be wobbling a bit too against background stars). Any confirmation of that?

Edited by: Remcook at: 12/2/03 4:00:59 pm
 
dingo15068
WAN * Admiral and
Captain of Phoenix
Posts: 1420
(12/2/03 4:30:48 pm)
Reply
  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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Remcook,
Please remimber our sun is a variable, which means that the amount of matter it ejects varies as well. The boundry that pioneer ran into, fluxuates as a result. With increased output from our sun, the "solar wind" increases, giving a boost. This is one of the possibilities that the astronomy community is debating.
Because of our closeness to the sun, we do not notice the variablity of the sun, other than by scientific instermintation, as you get further from the sun, the variability is more noticable. The degree of variablity is .1 magnitude at the extreams
 
Remcook
Hopeless ES Addict
Posts: 1620
(12/2/03 5:29:46 pm)
Reply  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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sorry dingo, but I don't understand what you're saying. I was talking about a change in position by the sun due to an accelleration cause by the gravity of an object (BD?)
By the pioneer anomaly I meant the very small accelleration in direction of the sun sensed by pioneer and other deep space probes. Maybe you got that, but could you explain some more then?
 
dingo15068
WAN * Admiral and
Captain of Phoenix
Posts: 1421
(13/2/03 12:44:13 am)
Reply
  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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As for the slight increase of the sun around the galaxy, I will leave that up to the professional astronomers, as it could be because of several different factors, most beyond my understanding. I do understand there is some variables dealing with the orbital mechanics of the galaxy, because we have a lot still to learn, exspecially about the interactions of multiple gravitational bodies, and the influence it has on our own solar system. There is just too many unknowns yet to even properly figure out the questions we need to ask. Our study of our own solar systems is even still in it's infancy
 
Remcook
Hopeless ES Addict
Posts: 1627
(13/2/03 10:13:55 am)
Reply  Re: Theory of multiple intrusions by rogues on the solar sys
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Yep, our solar system is as fascinating as the entire universe!  

[Remcook]

The links are mostly in the form of:

pub39.ezboard.com/fhuntfo...=445.topic

Forum nr. could be different. If someone likes to restore the links..go ahead.

[Remcook]

They still keep finding nearby objects:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2776229.stm

"Astronomers have discovered one of the closest stars to our Sun, and they say that more undetected close neighbours may be lurking in our vicinity""

[dingo15068]

Remcook, good link, it underlines my point about us still learning things.  They only discovered it, because of it's movement against the background stars.  If it were moveing at the same pace, we prblibly would not have noticed it for several years

[Remcook]

I will just repeat what I have said in my mail Dingo. Maybe some others like it too.

From Lifting Titan's Veil by Lorenz and Mitton

"There is a counterpoint to all this. If the dissipation in the interior were significant, then that still begged the question of how Titan's orbital eccentricity could be so high. Something relatively recent in solaar system history must have changed Titan's orbit - increasing its speed by about 80m/s or 160 miles/hour. An obvious idea is that a large impact could have given Titan a push that would need an object around 1000 km  across, large enough to smash Titan apart. Sohl and colaborators showed that an object 2000 km  in diameter could cause the required change in Titan's orbit, without actually hitting Titan, like a gravitational slingshot effect in reverse. The origin of the eccentricity of Titan's orbit may remain a mystery"

Interesting eh?
But what is 'recent'? Is that encounter of yours 'recent'?
You might also want to look for that Sohl article.

It's like a giant detective game
More clues...possibly misleading or irrelevant..it's intruiging!

[dingo15068]

As you can tell, I am not alone in the quest to figure out some of the unusual questions in regards to the solar system.

Rem, the thing to understand, in Solar motion, is that unless something forces a change in orbital paths, things generally stay within their orbits, eccentric orbits stablize after a thousand years, at least according to current mathamatical proofs and calculations.  So the even that  changed Titan, who's orbit is steady, most likely took placeseveral thousands to several millions of years.  Now another interesting point is eccentric orbits do change slightly over millions of years, becoming less eccentric.  It according to calculations would take several billions of years to completely smooth out the orbit to near circular (due to tidal gravitation)  Now the closer you get to the primary source of gravity, the more quicker the smaller object's orbit become circular, as the tital forces are more pronounced.  If the smaller object gets too close, then it will be ripped apart.  This is the most current explination for the rings on the gas giants

[dingo15068]

Latest Update:

Ok everyone, I know it has been a while since I have posted an update.  Several things in my life have changed recently, so I do not have the time to currently work on this projects as I want to.

Several things have taken place.  currently my theory and it's associated formula's and model have been transfered into the hands of a small group of astronomy grad students working on their masters under the direction of a doctorial graduate.  They have been picking through all of the data generated, as well as working with other research generated over the years on the idea by other astronomy enthusiests.  They have reported back to me, some calculation errors in my model, and have made corrections in some of the orbital data of objects within the model.  (For the most part these have dealt with recalcualted orbital paths based on new research and observation data).  The calculations on the ballistic physics has so far passed scrutony.  The calculations on the gravitaional effects of multiple objects has generated several questions in how I came up with the formula's, and their results, though contraversial due to their nature, seem to be accurate, including my stated margin of error.  (The formula's are standard physics, but they have not seen them used in the way I have done so before).

As for the results of the collisions and flybys, there is large debate on the subject, and is based on ongoing theoretical research being conducted in Edinbourgh Scotland by several noted astronomers.

[Remcook]

excellent! so the theory still stands so far?

Does this group have acces to the resources to do the number-crunching?